Alright..here comes a counter argument from Suri to Rashmi’s comment
To understand the following post, you have to read the above comment posted by Rashmi.
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Madam, will you come to reality? To be more clear I will stick to %s throughout.
The things you say about freedom and responsibility are too bookish and ideal.
I was my father’s responsibility till I was amateur and he paid his fair share of Tax (infact more than fair share for he is a Govt servant, Do you know 99% of Indian businessman don’t pay their fair share and so Govt employees are forced to pay more), He didn’t get any subsidy on anything and paid for everything in bringing me.
It is convenient to quote , “Never ask what your nation did for you, but ask what I did for it”, I know it and is inbuilt in me and most of the people who want to study and live in US.
But for greater goods it is better to take indirect route.
Lets take some practical points:
You know Govt of India spends about 2-3 Lacs per IITian during his undergrad education. Now do you have any idea how many of them actually go in their relevant field, ” serve the nation and pay back to their homeland”.
Most of them are only interested in gaining the money and even if it comes at cost of working in a field in which they have no interest( Yes this is 100%reality, check if you have any friends at IIT) Loads of them go to pursue MBA and 90% of what was invested in them goes down the drain.
Do you think looting Indian people with *conditions apply clauses, for US based firms is serving nation just because they pay tax to Indian Govt is better than NRIs, you are somewhere wrong maybe.
If you think the ones who go to US are “traitors and selfish” aren’t these people more or less same. And on a different note, if you want a developed nation you will need more engineers and technician rather than MANAGERS.
Coming to non IIT and NIT, how many actually go into non-consultancy firms?
I know there are lots and lots of real contributing people who in this world also do not give money first priority, but to be realistic we need to talk about mass mentality.
90% of non IIT and NIT guys will atleast for first 5 years(read their best years) either are not in a sufficient high position(read not the victims of managers) or lack of resources.
If such a guy with very little job satisfaction toiling in say Infosys and Wipro wish to pursue higher education is this his fault.
What option he has? Can he go to IIT (He will need GATE rank of <500) or NIT (which are decent only till undergrads).
The overall post graduation study condition is Pathetic in India,Tell me if you don’t agree to it?
If you need to be certain see how many research papers say in IEEE are published from India and then in US, (If you are unaware, in research based masters study, these papers are lithmus test of your performance).
What is wrong if he wants to go to US after spending his and his parents hard earned money for he wants change in his life and for a good. And let me tell you the ideals exist only till man is at peace, but when his mind is disturbed what is wrong if he thinks of him first rather than nation, He can always come back to serve nation when he is settled.
Salary Comparison
You quoted a salary of a software engineer at age of 30 which I found a bit rosy, it is actually 8-10 Lacs because not all are in top firms and not all engineers are software ones.
(Seeing your experience I know you will find it hard to digest but here it is http://www.payscale.com/research/IN/Job=Systems_Engineer_(Computer_Networking_/_IT)/Salary#by_Years_Experience
What about a chemical engineer? and funny enough not everyone is an engineer.
Common Man in USA vs India
Moreover I took the case of a “Common Man” in USA vs India and not an engineer.
The life of good fraction of them is screwed up being in sandwich in lots of different bread in different inclination.
It is but natural if he let out his anger somewhere inappropriate, leave alone reading novels or exploring different cultures or aspects.
Think why the cheap comedy shows and Bullshit family dramas are flourishing in India. I am sure you can find a correlation.
Talking of queues no one minds if it is for a reasonable cause.
I had to speed post few docs to US and I thought I was pretty smart I had reached just at the time of opening of Post office but the queue had come to the road.
I went next day before 1 hour of opening and was sure I had nailed it this time but the length of queue was the same.
I love to screw myself so I went a third day even before, and after standing for 3 hours the clerk says “International??? What International??? Come after 2 pm!!!!” I had to courier it paying 5 times more money.
I was in France for 2 months and had to collect money from their Post office and also my situation was a bit complicated. Not only there was next to zero queue at peak hours, my job got over in 7-8 minutes even when the ladies there knew very little English and sent me back with a smile.
Now talk of “pleasant work environment” clause. I am assuming you are a lady, so may be you haven’t faced such troubles but a guy cant get an errand done here without swearing for 5 times and sweared on even more.
And talking of productive work, Quoting so many of seniors and friends in unison engineers are just cheap labors here if they are ordinary. Just think on same lines why India had a BPO boom.
May be these will open you a bit more:
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/68-of-graduates-unfit-for-jobs/211026-60-121.html
http://news.rediff.com/column/2010/may/10/tvr-shenoy-on-the-degeneration-of-indias-universities.htm
http://www.zimbio.com/Education/articles/3j2B9o20b9_/Bad+Indian+universities+produce+millions+unfit.
You say I quote USA is better than India, I admit to it but my love is exclusive for India.
I will say it doesn’t make you a loser if you admit it.
And yes an average Engineer from US will be better then an average Indian Engineer due to numerous clauses.
If you don’t agree to it well then give some proofs.
The reality is, we are behind USA in most of important parameters and just by narrow mindedness and your paying tax clause we are not helping India, but by taking education in USA, working there for a decade and coming back to India we will have much better scopes for its growth.
Remember life is not a one dimensional run where there are only the Good end and the Bad end, It is much more complex and that makes it more beautiful. Isliye “Soch Badlo, Mulk Badlega”.
PS: I belong to IT-BHU (ranked 7-8 in India and 2000 on world level) I spent 4 months abroad (not US) for intern and in a weak moment I wanted to have my family there and live forever but again my love for India is more.
I belong to VLSI domain and would be glad if you could recommend a good company to me but I have already a job offer from a “biggie” in my field of interest and I do not intend to join it as I have an admit from a top 25 univ at USA and awaiting Visa. Also my senior at this biggie, who helped me in cracking its job interview is leaving it, quoting, “I cant take it anymore”.
*****
Your Comments?
Do you think Graduate Education is pathetic in India?
Suri has argued passionately that education quality has to be improved, but that doesn’t one shouldn’t love the country.
What do you think?
And i would like to add something here, the work which is done in the infosys, wipro etc, the guys and girls who have higher IQ will feel bore with it. Believe me, I have done that work and it is too much boring. Smart people will never like that work. And problem in india is that there is no engineering, hence, engineering graduates have to move out of the gut rut, hence they pursue MBA. There is nothing wrong with this, because smart people need something to motivate them. I mean, come on, will the person be satisfied if the only thing he is asked to do is to write a program which gives an output file based on certain SQL logic, after topping science n maths
This is the problem with indians. Deep inside, they love USA, the lifestyle, the opportunities, but they will not shed there indianess. According to me, if indians are going in USA, they must integrated into their culture. Absolutely nothing wrong in this. Infact, Chanakya himself has said that be the part of that nation and follow its culture which has provided the opportunity to you. All these elite educated urban indians may be try to show off that they have achieved something and yet did not lose their indianess, and others are foolish. Oh yes, these people actually follow self made rules and bounds.
Earlier comment had spelling mistake.
There is no denying that Indian Education system is not more than Masala.
Not only is the problem of equality in eduction oppurtunity and its worthless in IIT investments,but also is the problem of surprise,tests,assignments,etc.
We are given many bulk assignments of 60 pages in aiming to understand and learn.
Do you think that people with writting problem with me will be able to do fastly all these things.
The syllabus is completed without explaining properly.
We need to refer number of books and need time to understand the subject.
In India,we need to pass the exam with S grade without understanding the subject.
I am presently a final year mechanical Enginiering student and still we don’t know to supply correct amount of voltage to generators.This is a clearly rubbish Eductaion full of inappropriate continuous surprise tests and continuous meaningless Assignments .
An assignment should be something which enables us in learning.
I am also an inventor who is inventing an engine that runs on gravity.
The quality of physics PU (12th)education in India is rubbish in certain places and good in certain places.
Then how can I learn Enginiering? because of these,Some people are intelligent and yet they don’t make up to IIT who do to tolerate 1 percent less marks.
Quality education should be for all.
Most Worker’s children do not get education and cannot buy small land or house.Then if they occupy roads in Kandivalli, dhanukarwadi in Mumbai,to make sideway tents,how can police represeting lathicharge them without giving education. To make money for buying home!???
Few years back I saw small tents in mumbai,roadside,and government wanted to demolish those.Poor people did not had education to do a good job and did not had money to buy a land.Just like primitive stone age people unaware of future societies.
There is no doing that Indian Education system is not more than Masala.
Not only is the problem of equality in eduction oppurtunity and its worthless in IIT investments,but also is the problem of surprise,tests,assignments,etc.
We are given many bulk assignments of 60 pages in aiming to understand and learn.
Do you think that people with writting problem with me will be able to do fastly all these things.
The syllabus is completed without explaining properly.
We need to refer number of books and need time to understand the subject.
In India,we need to pass the exam with S grade without understanding the subject.
I am presently a final year mechanical Enginiering student and still we don’t know to supply correct amount of voltage to generators.This is a clearly rubbish Eductaion full of inappropriate continuous surprise tests and continuous meaningless Assignments .
An assignment should be something which enables us in learning.
I am also an inventor who is inventing an engine that runs on gravity.
The quality of physics PU (12th)education in India is rubbish in certain places and good in certain places.
Then how can I learn Enginiering? because of these,Some people are intelligent and yet they don’t make up to IIT who do to tolerate 1 percent less marks.
Quality education should be for all.
Most Worker’s children do not get education and cannot buy small land or house.Then if they occupy roads in Kandivallo in Mumbai,to make sideway tents,how can police lathicharge them without giving education. To make money for buying ome!???
you nailed it dude